The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the Gospel. So is the problem with the church then a blurred vision of the true Gospel message? Have we watered down the Gospel so much that we are not even presenting the real Gospel? I think maybe that is the real problem because the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. A watered down Gospel has no power at all. Just my thoughts…. Jesus never waited for the people He helped to be mature before telling them to go home to their household or personal communities whom Jesus restored to do so , and tell them what Jesus had done for them.
I have a few Christian in my congregation who are messy, they like me are learning, and becoming. Great article. I know of a man professing to be Christian and calls himself a disciple of Jesus Christ. Constantly repetitive in His praise to God. Told me God thanked him for praying over an hour. I was not impressed. Today too many say God tells them things when it is them feeding their vanity. He professes to be a disciple. He has no real fruit of Gods Holy Spirit. I would think that when we mature we are called to teach others how to discipline their lifes..
We must grow each day. This man I mentioned speaks as the world. He likes attention. He came out of a discipleship center. Was there 3 years in his 50s. He believes as long as his words praise God he is saved. He is very loud. I found your article refreshing. God bless. Thats never okay. You need to make sure you put your home — or church- and family — or church family — first.
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That should be tje 1 priority. If youre neglecting your own church but then saying to go out and evangelize, youre being an absolute hypocrite. How can you just neglect your members like that? You think thats the right thing to do? I was really confused by that. Are you saying we dont follow God? That makes no sense. Can we not be AND make disciples?? Does that mean we arent Christians?? It just doesnt work that way. I think you are being a little cynical here. But let me disagree with you here for a moment.
Evangelism is not only a gift. The seat of Evangelist part of the five-fold ministry, but you do not need to be called to the seat of evangelist to be an evangelist. If you study the term evangelist and where it was derived from your perspective would be changed. The evangelist would carry around a legal document back in the day called an euangelion. The euangelion was a document that announced the arrival of the heir to the thrown, meaning the son of the King has been born.. So being called an evangelist just means that you are carrying the message or the announcement of the arrival of the King.
And if you think that you can be a Christian and not share this good news, you are making a mistake. Praise be to God. Pls also identify themes that are common to your views in the article. When we do that we realize the church truly has a common goal- to know Christ and to make him known to the nations. The article goes further to challenge us to be more effective.
This commentary has been tugging on my heart strings for several years! Why is it that the large churches continue to get larger and the small ones stay small? Is God different in the large ones verses the small ones? Is the gospel different? Are the large churches growing because of decipleship? Whether you attend a small or large church, are the brother and sisterhood any closer outside the church walls than inside? Why is there thousands of different churches all following for the most part the gospel of Christ? Do you think having more knowledge of the scripture created all of these churches following the same gospel?
What is doctrine? Does doctrine dictate the gospel? What is missing????? If the answer is in the Bible, does having more knowledge of the Bible complete the puzzle?
Why does the non-christians feel that all we do is psycobabble our religion? Is psycobabble just another term for decipleship? Again, really, what is decipleship???? What is missing???? My father was a paster for almost thirty years, 1st half on Sunday, 2nd half on Saturday!
He spent most of his life obedient to Christ and to the doctrine of his church. Yet, during all of his years committing to being a deciple of Christ, he admitted to me close to his death that this was the hardest most frustrating thing to do. What was missing during his life as a paster???? There was talk of knowledge of the scriptures, but as I said earlier, does that make us a deciple? Where can wisdom be found? What is knowledge? Now what is missing????
Apostleship: More than Discipleship – God In All Things
They answered, No, we have not heard that there is a Holy Spirit. ROMANS ,  …called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God  the gospel he promised beforehand…  regarding his Son Jesus Christ  and through the Spirit Holy Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. That was really a good reply! I agree the church is getting discipleship wrong, but adding more rules and programs is not the answer.
Faith is always the missing piece the world does not understand. When we act as ambassadors for Christ we are living out the gospel, when we give to the orphan and widow, we are living out the gospel. The gospel will always be the stench of death to those who are perishing, but we have an oppertunity to share our faith with those around us… only the Holy Spirit can draw them. Teaching the scriptures… etc. God used John to define love as life to those who believe. So because we are told in the letters of John the world is going to perish and because we are told in the Gospel of John that Jesus has no part with the world and neither should people who take His name, then no, God does not love the world.
Rather He loves the believers out of it and its condemnation into life. Corrected errors. So because we are told the letters if John the world is going to perish and because we are told in the Gospel of John that Jesus has no part with the world and neither should people who take His name, then no, God does not love the world.
I loved this article, Carey. We have to go and expand the family of God and encourage others to go do the same through evangelization. You can count me in now! I like much of what you say here but I would disagree with your be vs make disciples. As a pastor, I would not want new Christians with little knowledge of the Bible or Christian disciplines starting by discipling others. While the pastor s and other leaders have a role in discipling, people also have to take ownership of their own discipleship. The summaries of the church I read in Acts are of Christians seeking to BE disciples by studying the teachings of the apostles, prayer, fellowship, etc.
While I get your point, I do think you present a false dichotomy. Remember the woman at the well? She drew a crowd to Jesus even before she had had a full class of discipleship with Jesus.
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Great article! The Corinthian church was, in all likelihood, an evangelizing, disciple -making church and that is probably why or the main reason it had so many carnal members. I know I did and still do. I remember when! God is not finished with me, with all believers, who still walk this earth. Another reason to be gracious towards other believers. Great post Carey. A student learns to know what the teacher knows so they get a passing grade. An apprentice learns to do what the teacher does. Can you provide a link for this translation? I am not versed in Hebrew and my google searches are failing me.
Yes, yes…. We have wrongly separated evangelism and discipleship, and ironically discipleship from disciple-making. What is it we are actually seeking to produce? I think this is great. But I do think this is putting it a little too black and white, when in reality it should go together —acknowledging that two things are both part of each other. Barth says that faith is knowledge, so we do need that. But he does call this to be knowledge that forms and guides our lives. So our discipleship is to be one that is done because we have this knowledge.
So we are to forgive our enemies because Jesus has called us to do so, we feed the poor because Jesus fed the poor, we evangelize because Christ called us to do so, and most importantly, we love because Jesus has loved us. All of those are things we know of, but our knowledge has just put them there, as information. Our faith knowledge has to be more of doing, which does include evangelism, but that evangelism is certainly only found in the discipleship. Furthermore, for those who love God, the two would be mutually inclusive.
We cannot be a true disciple without discipling others and we cannot truthfully disciple others without being a disciple. We follow and lead at the same time. I am not speaking of salvation requirements, but of discipleship. When you can restore believers without condemning or judging them, knowing any of us, no matter how mature can fall into sin.
Carey, this is so helpful. I find myself making these same statements when approaching ministry. Jesus DOES actually love the world. I knew it all along, He actually loves this place! This is how you learn how to do the making. This is where you learn humility. And, then, at the same time you must be in another relationship where you are doing the making and the other is doing the being. But, even before that — that plank that is in thine own eye — that must be dealt with.
Do that — and learn — then you can teach others, having demonstrated it in your own life. Discipleship is about helping others remove the splinters from their eyes. Great stuff and just another confirmation to what God has placed in my heart…thank you for sharing! I hope lead pastors will get this message. For the most part, I agree with the article — especially the link of discipleship to evangelism. Yes, they are one and the same and should not be seen as separate entities. Nevertheless, making disciples presupposes discipleship. And while you are correct in indicating the thrust of Matthew , we also have Mark and parallels, Luke 12, Matthew , Romans , Hebrews if translated correctly.
Simply put, the cross is not only something done for us, but also a paradigm of discipleship. If you are indicating that discipleship comes when we quit focusing so much on our progress and look outward to engaging mission, then I agree. Perhaps the article could be worded a bit better. Nevertheless, points 2,3, — yes, I agree wholeheartedly! My research would track well with your comments 3 to the end, but not with 1 or 2.
Jesus certainly calls us to be disciples. I know you correct yourself later, but I think the comment would be better left unsaid. What Jesus never did say or Paul or anyone else: Go into the world and make converts. Sure we need to tell folks about Jesus, the Gospel, and the Hope of Heaven through words and actions. We need to love God and others. But that kind of evangelism should flow out of our love of God and others.
Appreciate your comment Randy. Christ-followers regularly shared their faith and radically changed their lives. Otherwise the spread of Christianity would not have happened. But I appreciate you weighing in. Great points Carey. The bottom line was: go do evangelism and do it with others and that will be great discipleship. Thanks for your reflections. Challenging me personally. Appreciate that Anton. The difference is huge. And even when we get the first comandment right we usualy seem to forget; you can not do the first without doing the second. If we get these two simple comandments right everything else in the Church will fall into place.
It is all about LOVE. Yet how often do you hear a sermon or see a book on LOVE? How we handle all the issues you mention changes when our motivation is love. Thank you for the article! But the imbalance is that too many are stuck in training, getting fat and happy for self instead of making disciples of others. They were out there making disciples while they were in training.
Great article about discipleship. God commanded us to go and make disciples of all nations, teaching these new disciples to obey all the commands God has given us. God promised He will always be with us. Trust God and go, go, go…make disciples. Thanks for this great article. This absolutely applies to discipleship as well. I like that. I agree that we carry too many verses.
Christ came to simplify Christianity into two rules: Love God and love others. Our job in making disciples, according to the Great Commission, is to teach people to obey. Good post! Great post Carey — makes us think of the reality behind what were are to BE and what were are called to DO. This is the best and freshest take on discipleship I have read in a long time. I will share this with all my leaders! I love this post. When I look at how I am being discipled by other disciples there is a little bit of a process to it.
The person discipling gives out information the Bible, sermons, books. Then they show the person being discipled what its like to live like Jesus did to the best of their ability, no one can be exactly like Jesus Finally, they invite the discipled individual into trying their hand at living out what Jesus calls us to do. They invite them to walk along side them like Jesus invited the disciples. Full of questions, not knowing the answers to everything, but willing to sacrifice their lives to the calling Jesus has for them.
I am more and more convinced that the same activities that make disciples also make disciples mature: worship, prayer, service, generosity, authentic relationships. Really appreciate the feedback so far. Clearly we do. So I agree. Hope that helps. One of the first things I was taught in Bible School was that you can not give what you do not have. That being said, to make disciples of all nations, one has to be a disciple himself. Also to be a disciple of Christ means to be disciplend in Christ and we are definately called to the be all that and more.
Last but not least, if I am called to make desciples of all nations, that means that someone else had to reach out to me first and had to make me a desciple first. That or a personal touch from God. Anyhow, just my thought. Be Blessed and keep spreading the good news!
So, Discipleship includes making Disciples. The bottom line is not our dogma but our commitment to love. Unfortunately much of the church is caught up in an agenda that is more about talking about love rather than loving. Not sure I agree with the above statement that you just have to make disciples and not be one… and possibly while you are helping someone BE a disciple that that is when transformation occurs.
But perhaps I misread? How can I tell someone else how to be a disciple if I am not being one myself? I need to be a disciple and have a keen understanding of what that entails before I offer marching orders for others. Part of the issue for North American Christians is that many have attended church for decades and have no idea what a disciple is. How can you live into something that is unidentifiable in your own heart? Further, disciples make disciples. We cannot circumvent it for ourselves and plop it onto others.
Then, as they lived into that, it would be hard to tell the master from the student. Our hope is that we offer at least a glimmer of Christ as others see us in action. As I was reading, I was thinking that I have jumped into positions without fully knowing everything but I learned by making mistakes…and then I scrolled to 3! So True! Discipleship happens in many forms and methods. Do we dare believe that the apostles had it all down to an art form even though they had lived with Jesus?
And in the process they became better servants for Christ! Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. And what if you could do something about it by rethinking what you mean by discipleship? It goes like something like this: Me: People need to reach out more and focus more of their time, energy and resources on evangelism. Pretty compelling logic.
Flabby Christians I agree that often Christians in the West are immature. But I also think the average North American Christian is about bible verses overweight. Jesus commanded us to make disciples, not be disciples. Discipleship is simply linked to evangelism. A mark of an authentic disciple includes getting it wrong. These new, immature Christians can be swayed by powerful personalities still be sexually active outside of marriage have questionable business practices end up in broken families be too swayed by the culture not know how to conduct themselves in worship doubt core doctrines like the resurrection If these issues remind you of why you so dislike growing churches or megachurches, just realize that I pulled every one of those problems out of 1 Corinthians.
Maturity takes time and is not linear It would be great if there was instant maturity in faith and in life. Christian maturity was never about you anyway. Love compels us If you love the world, how can you ignore it? What do you think? Leave a comment. John Harris on January 16, at am. Phill on May 7, at am. Stephanie on January 16, at am. John David on June 5, at am. Daniel Hosea on December 19, at am. Stephanie on January 22, at am. Lonzy Gore on November 28, at am.
Jesse Powell on December 4, at am. Fred on December 22, at pm.
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Nicholas on October 28, at am. Waiting upon the Lord. In His service, Nicholas. Ray on November 28, at am. Nicholas, I am sorry that I did not see your post earlier. Timothy Fountain on July 23, at am. Steve on June 14, at am. Mitch on January 24, at pm. Matthew Starrs on May 30, at am. This is so good Carey! Super amazing good! Thank you! SouthernBelle on April 21, at pm. I think that is the thrust of this article. Joel Turner on September 13, at pm. Kat on December 31, at pm. Afua on November 29, at pm.
Ramona Lup on December 2, at pm. John Harris on January 14, at pm. Jeff on March 3, at am. Brett on March 21, at pm. Margie Petrone on January 28, at pm. Sav on September 18, at am. I disagree with a lot of stuff here. Austin on December 26, at pm. David Maddy on September 5, at pm. Judah on January 16, at pm. Margie on January 28, at pm. Katherine Fries on July 19, at pm. Doris Schuster on February 24, at pm. Stephen J. Bedard on February 24, at pm. Michael Bartlett on August 3, at pm.
I agree that it is being first so that the doing will happen. So both. Know Jesus, be and do. The more we do the more we learn to put away the old self and become the new creation in and through Christ, who we have been all along! You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Google account. You are commenting using your Twitter account. You are commenting using your Facebook account. Notify me of new comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email.
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